AEM EMS or Power FC for 600AWHP GTR33

[Sayajin]

Okay guys. I am getting ready to get seriously started on my build on my GTR33 and am trying to decide which engine managment system I want to go with. Initially I was planning on going with the Power FC, but I have heard that not many people know how to tune that over here in the SE (Georgia) part of the states. I also know that AEM recently released an EMS for the Skyline GTR33. I am just trying to decide what the better route is. Of course I know that the AEM EMS offers better tuning and engine managment, however I do not know if it is REALLY necessary for my setup. Also I know that the Power FC is considered outdated and what not. Belive me, I have studied both systems pretty well so I know the benifits and drawbacks on each. I am really just trying to get opinions on what would be better for my setup.

I am shooting for about 575-600AWHP on my GTR33 that is street driven. I can get the AEM EMS for about $1300 Shipped and the Power FC for about $700 shipped. Obviously it is a signifigant price difference. I just wanted to get your opinions on which setup would work best. What do you guys think? Power FC for $700 or AEM EMS for $1300? 600AWHP Setup. Thx for the advice!



-Sayajin

[g00kb0i]

id get the aem... just losing the afm's wins it... plus u get all the goodies in the pro plus more... i think the power fc is out-dated now... power fc = t88, aem = gt42r kinda thing... aem also comes with the software and forum feedback...

[Nikeboy355]

$600 on top of the cost of a R33 with engine modifications is nothing.... And the AEM is worth every penny over the PowerFC... Stronger processor, more features, more support, and plenty more...

[SamuraiSam]

EMS refers to any Engine Management System... call it the AEM EMS or just AEM... just to avoid confusion

There have been lots of people that have had problems with the AEM, and avoid it at all costs. I dont fault them for it. Personally, I love it. The Power FC is also a great system, and is easy as pie when you have a Datalogit, and I assume equally so, or even better, with the Excel software.

The correct answer is not which is the better unit hardware wise or software wise, but rather which unit the best EMS tuner in your area prefers. Talk to people who run standalones to find out, ride in their car and see how smooth it is, how it idles, what on/off response is like. Or if you already know where to go for a good tune, ask them which system you should get. The standalone is only as good as the person behind the keyboard.

[bullitt96]

How many people here are successfully running AEM? I loved AEM EMS on my Supra, but I've heard several horror stories about AEM EMS on the RB26DETT platform. This makes me lean towards Power FC.

[legalr33]

I only trust XS with my GTR. They say use PFC or Fcon, so I use the FC. Good bang for the buck.

[Sayajin]

Originally Posted by bullitt96

How many people here are successfully running AEM? I loved AEM EMS on my Supra, but I've heard several horror stories about AEM EMS on the RB26DETT platform. This makes me lean towards Power FC.

I have also heard a number of horror stories. Specifically that the CAS with the AEM EMS does not work properly... I wonder if anyone on here is actually USING it in their GTR?



-Sayajin

[Oni_Ni_Kana_Bo]

My buddy's 2.8 Nismo GT complete engine just melted a pison on the AEM. No bad implications on AEM meant here. Just to say it might not be as easy to tune as say the reytec in which the same car and same tuner had running fine. This was on a BNR34. The AEM EMS is out for this car already right? I agree with the earlier comment, about finding the right ECU to best suit the best tuner combination...

[YumGTR]

Originally Posted by Sayajin

I have also heard a number of horror stories. Specifically that the CAS with the AEM EMS does not work properly... I wonder if anyone on here is actually USING it in their GTR?



-Sayajin

call AEM tech support and ask them how to install the EMS on an R32/R33. The diameter of the CAS is so small that the EMS can't take accurate readings from its 360 teeth. The solution according to AEM? Cut off every other tooth, so there are only 180 to read from. The unit is not plug and play. Friend is putting one in another friend's R33 GTR this week and it is a mess.

[usagtrpilot]

Had no problems with my Power FC.

Had it mapped by Bee*R a few months before I left Japan, and they got me a very responsive 430ish HP. About max HP w/ stock fuel system, turbos, etc.

The only con I have is that the knock sensor picks up noise from the boost controller at max boost, I get the flashing check engine light erroneously.

Other than that, combined with the Datalogit, the PFC is about as user friendly/plug and play as it gets.

[legalr33]

430 crank hp at what boost?

Originally Posted by usagtrpilot

Had no problems with my Power FC.

Had it mapped by Bee*R a few months before I left Japan, and they got me a very responsive 430ish HP. About max HP w/ stock fuel system, turbos, etc.

The only con I have is that the knock sensor picks up noise from the boost controller at max boost, I get the flashing check engine light erroneously.

Other than that, combined with the Datalogit, the PFC is about as user friendly/plug and play as it gets.

[YumGTR]

430 hp on stock turbos, fuel pump and fuel injectors?

[usagtrpilot]

Originally Posted by legalr33

430 crank hp at what boost?

1.2 bar for the dyno run..

Never went past 1.0 on the street. Kinda need the turbos to last for a while..

I also have Z32 air flow meters and the Apex Super Suction kit which helps.

[Meister_S14]

Originally Posted by Nikeboy355

$600 on top of the cost of a R33 with engine modifications is nothing.... And the AEM is worth every penny over the PowerFC... Stronger processor, more features, more support, and plenty more...

Whoa, no mentioning of the HKS FCon VPro?

[RealGTR]

The Power Fc is a very good unit especialy if you have the DataLogic software.

I have a used L-jetro version for sale 450.00+shipping with commander you'll have 2 have it remaped.

[bullitt96]

So far, no actual AEM EMS users...
HKS FCon, I've been told is a great option as well. However, I hear it's crazy expensive. I've been quotes as high as $5k by a shop.

[jza8O]

Some info here:

http://forum.aempower.com/forum/inde...4de&board=66.0

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by Sayajin

I have also heard a number of horror stories. Specifically that the CAS with the AEM EMS does not work properly... I wonder if anyone on here is actually USING it in their GTR?

Theres some guys on the UK forum that have experienced this problem. Its not an AEM problem. Its not a Power FC problem. Its a CAS problem.

The Nissan CAS along with the timing belt, moves around. This causes timing drift.

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by Meister_S14

Whoa, no mentioning of the HKS FCon VPro?

Great box, no support for the end user. No way to datalog. No way to adjust anything if you want to do it.

You might as well have a good ROM tuned ECU vs an F-Con V Pro.

[Meister_S14]

Originally Posted by tyndago

Great box, no support for the end user. No way to datalog. No way to adjust anything if you want to do it.

You might as well have a good ROM tuned ECU vs an F-Con V Pro.

It does have full data logging capabilities and can adjust everything. It also has "compensation settings" so it can make adjustments on its own to protect the motor in case any parameters get out of whack.

However, these features are only accessible by a certified HKS Pro Dealer so it's not for the DIY tuner.

[jas3113]

I'vd had the AEM EMS on my car for about 4 weeks already. She's not fully tuned, but she started right up after the initial install. Full tune will go on hopefully next week. I just got the FJO dual wide band controllers in.

I have a R34 N1 motor with a R34 CAS and have no problems with it. I can tell you she runs great after losing the MAF's, spool time seemed to have decreased. The only problem we had was during her initial tune she was popping from 170-160 mph.

I'll try to get a video of her on the next dyno.

John

[Sayajin]

So Sean. Would you recommend the AEM EMS over the Power FC? I mean for my particular circumstances, of course we all know it is a superior device made to handle many more things.


-Sayajin

[merritt]

When I was working at AEM Sean helped me in getting RB26DETT parts to the electronics engineers in order to check out the known problems people were having. A bit more was learned about the CAS and how to set up the reading of the signal in the EMS.

Over the years the RB26DETT engine went through a few different CAS sensors. While one way of reading the signal might have worked on the first generation CAS sensor but it wasn't quite sufficient for later generations. AEM has now seen all the different sensors and knows how each one reads.

The good thing about the AEM EMS system is that there is tech support in this country. You can call AEM, speak to someone who speaks english, and work out any problems. There are people there (most specifically Mitch) that have extensively messed with the AEM EMS in GT-Rs.

The main thing though on GT-Rs and many Nissans is grounding issues. GT-Rs have particularly bad grounding because the battery is located in the back. Before freaking out because things are acting funny with any aftermarket engine management system be sure that ALL your grounds are clean. Check for voltage signals on the grounding wires with the engine running. You might be surprised at how much noise there is. That noise on the ground wire causes sensors that read voltage differnces to read wrong. I recomend getting a ground kit, seriously. It solves the problem of noise on the grounds, it doesn't just mask it.

[tyndago]

Just to try and scare some of the chicken littles out there..............................





Hugh Keir from the UK's logging of a stock CAS.

"Here is a logged example of the problem that is caused when a high power GTR runs the CAS for ignition timing. The graph shows a the CAS error as you go up the gears in my car, although I do not use the CAS to provide ignition timing.

The 0 to 100 scale on the left = 20° of ignition timing which if you look at the trace = 10° of ignition timing wobble

Finding a fix for this problem is straightforward when you have a non plug and play ECU like the Motec or Autronic.

It is not so easy for the Power FC, although I believe RB Motorsport are working on a solution for that ECU as well.

As mentioned earlier, the random ignition timing will give rise to lots of detonation especially up in the higher gears. This is definitely a big problem for RB26 engines."

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/52...s-pics-13.html

[Twinsnails]

Ok so now I am completely freaked out a little bit kinda sorta. I have a friggin Power FC!!!! WTF do I do to get the frick rid of that awful looking graph thing. The last thing I want to do is go through a ridiculous build like this and blow the crap of the the motor on the first friggin pull!!!!!!! Merritt suggests a good grounding kit.......anything else!!!!

[kismetcapitan]

PFCs derive their ignition timing entirely from the CAS?

[usagtrpilot]

Originally Posted by Twinsnails

Ok so now I am completely freaked out a little bit kinda sorta. I have a friggin Power FC!!!! WTF do I do to get the frick rid of that awful looking graph thing. The last thing I want to do is go through a ridiculous build like this and blow the crap of the the motor on the first friggin pull!!!!!!! Merritt suggests a good grounding kit.......anything else!!!!

You got a crank damper pulley? Might help.

http://www.nengun.com/catalogue/product/972

[bullitt96]

Well, RBMotoring sold me on the AEM. I figure anyone that can run a race team with RB26DETT has to know what they're doing. I'll post results in a few months when the car is finished.

[jas3113]

Just got word car is finally getting tuned tonight with the AEM EMS. Dyno charts should be going up tonight.

John

[legalr33]

Damn, HKS prices. I think I'll go with the ATI for around $450.

[sorce]

PowerFC has been proven for 1000+ HP @ XS

Does anyone have any numbers with even close to 500 HP with the AEM?

[jas3113]

Originally Posted by sorce

PowerFC has been proven for 1000+ HP @ XS

Does anyone have any numbers with even close to 500 HP with the AEM?

Mine is definately over 500whp on the EMS I'll have more to back that up tonight

John

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by sorce

PowerFC has been proven for 1000+ HP @ XS

Does anyone have any numbers with even close to 500 HP with the AEM?

Yep . Over 500 on the race car. 500 on the silver R34.


Like I said- its not a AEM, Power FC, or V-Pro issue - its a CAS issue.

People have made a lot of power. I have also seem the CAS - rpms jump around a bit on a pass.

[merritt]

Originally Posted by legalr33

I only trust XS with my GTR. They say use PFC or Fcon, so I use the FC. Good bang for the buck.

I have talked with Eric at XS about engine management systems. Eric told me that he prefers the JDM systems because those are the ones he is familiar with. They are the units he tunes with all day. Of course he will have more confidence tuning those units. If you plan on sticking with one good tuner then by all means I would say use the system they are most comfortable with. That will produce the most power for the least cost. You'll pay less money for tuning time when the tuner can work quickly.

[RealGTR]

Is there any way to smooth out or boost the signal from the stock CAS?

Does any company make an upgraded one?

[Oni_Ni_Kana_Bo]

can try using a new/er one... some reytec users I know went and bought new units or swapped 2nd hand ones until they found one that "worked". Not sure the validity of doing this... whether there are variances between new and old.

[SamuraiSam]

The answers to alot of these questions are over on AEM's forums and are a phone call away. I don't know them off hand although alot of the same basic issues have been gone over on GTR uk as well as an R34 ATTESA-specific issue. Besides CAS variances, the 34 ATTESA, i dont know of any other severe problems.

....The suggestion to cut off every other tooth sounds sketchy to me. If it comes down to that you can make your own wheel / sensor etc.

There is no way to 'dampen' that CAS signal.

As far as a crank pulley, ATI's Fluidampers work on everything well. I would not hesitate to run one.

Whoever just had a piston melted... I would have to know more before saying if it was a tuning issue or what.. There have been cars that have run pistons or broken ringlands running on power FCs too.

[SamuraiSam]

Originally Posted by sorce

PowerFC has been proven for 1000+ HP @ XS

Does anyone have any numbers with even close to 500 HP with the AEM?

Uhh, yes. A standalone is never a factor in the HP limitation of a car.

I've seen 1400hp uncorrected dynojet #'s on an AEM - granted, it was a Supra, but it's the exact same motherboard.

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by usagtrpilot

You got a crank damper pulley? Might help.

http://www.nengun.com/catalogue/product/972

We have the bolt on small ATI damper. Just need different belts. Less than 1/2 the HKS damper price.

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

GTR uk as well as an R34 ATTESA-specific issue. Besides CAS variances, the 34 ATTESA, i dont know of any other severe problems.

....The suggestion to cut off every other tooth sounds sketchy to me. If it comes down to that you can make your own wheel / sensor etc.

ATTESA issue is fixed. The R32/R33 and R34 ECUs are different as the R34 derives its ATTESA signal from the ECU, and the R32/R33 grabs it direct from the TPS sensor.

The CAS stuff.... I have seen it before. Marc - who had an AEM running on his GT-R before anyone, had a custom CAS wheel made for his car.

Under load - with Nicks car on some 11 second passes, I saw rpms jumping around as much as 400 rpm frame to frame. Up 400, then in the middle, then down 400, then in the middle. I wrote it off to belt stretch and ignored it.