J-Rho's STS 240 buildup (lots o' pics)

[J_Rho]

Creating this thread as an introduction of myself and as a blog of sorts to share how my 240 goes together. As a bit of background on me, I've been racing in the SCCA's Solo2 autocross events for the last few years, all over the country. This year was my best finish at Nationals, where I ended up third in a 600HP SM2 Corvette-
Which I'd only driven 3 times previously. Over the past few years I've raced Civics, S2000s, M3s, a Lexus IS300, a '68 Datsun 510, and even an 1100lb. Hayabusa-motored Radical SR3.

I quit running the S2000 in early '03 and started on the Civics. The black '89 Si I built that year won the 2003 National Championships in the hands of my buddy Ken Motonishi. I've been tweaking and running it for Ken ever since, and he won again in it this year.

Having built the only repeat-winning car since STS became a full National class, I feel I have a pretty good idea of what it takes to build a winning car. I've had a lot of fun running in STS, but was getting too quick to keep sharing the car with Ken. And I wanted to do something different than another Civic...

A lot of people think that no car can unseat the Sis from the STS throne. For regular Solo2 autocross, this may be the case. However, there's a lesser-known series, called Pro Solo, where I think other cars can do well. ProSolo features a drag start with a full tree and everything. The series itself requires competitors to travel around to different events and earn points, culminating in the Pro Finale, held in Topeka in the days before the Solo2 National Championships.

It's in these ProSolo events, which to me is the larger and more fun part of the autocross season, where I think the 240 can beat the Civic. It's got quite a bit more torque and rear wheel drive to help it get off the line at the launch. With margins of victory generally less than a tenth of a second, having a couple tenths' advantage to the 60 foot mark can be huge.

So that's part of why I chose a 240. Another is that there's a large contingent of whiners that keep complaining that "wahhh nothing can beat the Civics" who I intend to prove wrong, again at least for Pro Solo. Plus I figured the car would be a good platform in case I ever want to shoehorn in a monster motor and go to SM. My dad is putting an S15 SR20DET in my old 510, I'm jealous!

After talking with some very experienced autocrossers who themselves had owned 240s, we came to the conclusion that the car would need the limited slip to have a chance. That was a bit disappointing, as a hatchback with ABS, HICAS, and sunroof was going to be at least 100 pounds heavier than a base coupe. Handling is everything in autocross and with all STS cars limited to 7.5" wide wheels, the Civics down under 2000 pounds have a big advantage over the 240. I figured I could get a base coupe in the 24xx's, but with the HICAS car I'll be lucky to be in the 25xx's.

Since HICAS/LSD cars are already pretty rare, and southern California being a hot-spot for 240 enthusiasm, I had to go all the way to Portland to get mine. A clean-looking, stock, and un-wrecked red '92.

It had a funky smell but made it the 1100 miles back to San Diego without any drama, returning 25mpg.

That was on a Friday in early August. That Saturday I ran the 510 at a practice autocross, while getting some skinny old Falkens mounted on a set of cheap 17x7.5" Enkeis and changing the oil. Ran the 240 on Sunday bone stock, was able to get within 3.5 seconds of the top Civics, about where I was hoping to be. This, despite some rather worn bushings-

The next day, the car went up on jackstands, where it's been for the last 3 months. The left side struts and shocks went to ProParts USA, who just this week should be finished building me some custom 2817 front struts and longbody 2812 rear shocks. The 28's are the single most expensive mod the car is getting - they're basically previous-generation F1/Indy Car shocks. Aluminum bodied, double-adjustable monotubes. Good stuff.

Also bought a spare KA and tranny, the motor's been rebuilt to stock-class rules by a high-class shop in LA that I trust to do it legally. It'll be .020 over with a freshened head and all new wearing bits. Jim Wolf is wrapping up the ECU, tuned specifically for 100 octane fuel. The car's going to pretty much be a trailer queen, and I got another stock ECU for when 100's not available. Power mods rounded off with a full Injen CAI, stainless cat-back, DC header, and an UR pulley.

So while the motor and shocks were being built, I set about doing "everything else". Got a set of mercury silver 17x7.5" +33 Volk CE-28N's to have as my "good wheels"; a set of same-sized Rota D2's for street/local event wheels. Also got a set of fresh 225/45-17 Falken RT-615's-


Brakes felt a little soft stock, got Porterfield R4S pads.

Car is pretty nose heavy, so I pulled out the whole AC. Got rid of the stock battery, got a little Odyessy, mounted it in the spare well-


With all the lag time for the shocks, and a need to do all the bushings, I decided to have the whole suspension powdercoated. Went with a sort of teal/tuquoise I'd seen on a bunch of machines in the Deutsche Museum-



The did T/C brackets too, and am getting the rear subframe is in there now getting done in a nice silver.


Bought a power washer and spent a lot of time removing dirt and grime. Must've removed at least 5 pounds of dirt from around the gas tank at the rear of the right rear wheelwell-seriously!

So with the powertrain and suspension mostly on track, turned my attention to the interior. Had to order the steering boss from some place in Japan to retain HICAS functionality (as I'm not permitted to disable the HICAS by the rules), which didn't fit the Momo wheel, had to do a ton of drilling and rigging to get it all together right. Put a Cobra Suzuka in for the driver on Bride rails, and a 15 lb. Kirkey intermediate for the passenger, all the way to the right and as far back as it can go while still allowing the rear seat to fold down.


If all goes well the car will be ready for the San Diego event this Sunday. It'll have new Nismo subframe bushings (spacers not allowed), 6 new ball joints, new tie rod ends, all new wheel bearings, rolled fender lips, long studs and 15mm spacers all around. Power steering leaked like mad, so every line I could get has been replaced.

So that's where things are as of now. I plan to put the fresh motor and 100 octane ECU in over Thanksgiving. May get it painted in December, color as yet undecided, though I'm thinking black. Going to get a big APR carbon wing, and built some kind of aluminum front splitter...then it'll be about done...really!

I'll post some more pics as it goes together and once I get it on the ground, maybe this weekend.

Looking forward to getting it dialed in over the winter and taking on those pesky Civics in '06!

[KrazyZenki]

Wow thats a really nice setup. How much is that suspension setup gonna cost you(the struts)? I really want to get into SCCA but have to get more familiar with the rules.

[180sx]

I dont know what the rules are about the brake system. But may i recomend Z32 calipers. I have autocrossed against the 350Z`s with my coupe 240 and did well with the stock brakes but once i ran on my fastback with the 300ZX brakes it made a night and day difference.

[orion]

Brake upgrades not allowed...cross drilled and slotted rotors, and good pads are...but nothing bigger than stock.

STX allows that, IIRC.

See here for STS rules:

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rule...t_touring.html

...

And J-Rho...nice setup.

It's rare you see somone take a not-so-common setup to the max like this, for the express purpose of Solo.

I run my S14 in SM...not as a fully prepped car...hell, I still run on street tires...hehe. But on a local level and regional level, I do allright considering the competition. But on a national level, I think a 240SX has ZERO chance of being competitive in SM versus the supercharged M3s.

Anyway, good luck with it...sounds like it will be a TON of fun, at least.

- Brian

[2Fass240us]

Looks good J-Rho. I went with gloss black powdercoating on my suspension pieces, but like your color for its originality.

Best of luck, and keep us updated.

-Andy

[Punch]

Brake upgrades not allowed...cross drilled and slotted rotors, and good pads are...but nothing bigger than stock.

STX allows that, IIRC.

See here for STS rules:

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rule...t_touring.html

...

And J-Rho...nice setup.

It's rare you see somone take a not-so-common setup to the max like this, for the express purpose of Solo.

I run my S14 in SM...not as a fully prepped car...hell, I still run on street tires...hehe. But on a local level and regional level, I do allright considering the competition. But on a national level, I think a 240SX has ZERO chance of being competitive in SM versus the supercharged M3s.

Anyway, good luck with it...sounds like it will be a TON of fun, at least.

- Brian

I disagree, I think that the 240, if prepped, can do very well against the M3s...look at how well the civics are doing on a national level. I am still building in the process of building my SM monster...waiting until next season.

[019]

it's awesome to hear you getting the car together! i've been eager to hear anything coming from you since you said you were building an sts 240 a while back. i got even more excited when i saw you post in the "what can beat an si in sts" thread on sccaforums i wanna see pictures! who cares if it's in pieces and on jackstands, haha.

Brake upgrades not allowed...cross drilled and slotted rotors, and good pads are...but nothing bigger than stock.

STX allows that, IIRC.

that's correct. STS will only allow stock replacement basically, while STX will allow the z32 upgrade.

[champa]

so who's car is this?
P315/35R17 Hoosiers, SR20DET, Moton shocks, suspension arms, V-Mount.. supposedly it ran fast times in practice

Scca Solo2 National Championships, Topeka, KS 9/13 - 9/16

[Voltron]

Terrific! I started out autoxing in San Diego. Good luck with your project. It will be great to see what a well prepped 240 can do!

[J_Rho]

I think the 240 could be a contender in SM, it's just going to take a lot more money than people are probably willing to invest. I've spent a bit of time talking with Don Nimi, who probably has the furthest developed SM 240, and even he has a ways to go. In ultimate form, a base 240 coupe will be smaller (given equal size tires) and lighter than the M3, with equivalently good balance. Everything else (power, suspension) can be equalized in the SM ruleset given enough time, money, and development.

Subframe got done early, picked it up today-


Rotas got here too, they'll be great for street bling-


Here's some of the parts as I begin assembly-

[2Fass240us]

I read the rules and the link, and metal subframe bushings aren't allowed...d-oh! They'd tighten things up nicely for your application.

[Nitrox]

Why is the hicas so impotant to you? Are you allowed to install an oem lsd into a car that didn't come with it?

[flip240]

thats a really nice attention to detail, hope you do welll and rock on man!

[J_Rho]

Why is the hicas so impotant to you? Are you allowed to install an oem lsd into a car that didn't come with it?

Viscous limited slips are the only type legal for STS, and the only way you could get the viscous in a US 240 was with the HICAS. If I could ditch the HICAS or get the VLSD any other way I would've done so, trust me.

I also happen to be on the STAC (Street Touring Advisory Committe), the group that shapes the rules for STS, STX, STU and STS2.

[Water]

That's not ture...coupes never came with a VLSD, but some SE model hatches did.
Thing that sucks about a Hicas car is that you also have an old, crappy abs system and a bunch of extra wiring throughout the car for the Hicas/ABS. The nice thing about it is that you have 4 less rubber bushings to deal with and far more toe adjustability options.

[asad]

If I could ditch the HICAS or get the VLSD any other way I would've done so, trust me.

Ok I'm a little confused -- the VLSD was part of an factory option package, and the Stock Class rules (for which the STS rules refer to for modifications not listed under the STS rules) state:

13.10.L --
"Limited-slip differential, transmission and differential ratios, clutch mechanisms, and carburetion, fuel injection or supercharger induction systems must be standard as herein defined."

And "standard" is defined as:

"12.4 Standard Part
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and delivered through a dealer in the United States..."

To me that implies that you could put the VLSD in a non-HICAS car because it was part of a factory-installed option package. Or is the issue that it's a whole "package" and you can't install one part of an optional package and not the rest of it?

Asad

[BlaBla]

You should get some 91ka24de cams - more power from what I read

[J_Rho]

To me that implies that you could put the VLSD in a non-HICAS car because it was part of a factory-installed option package. Or is the issue that it's a whole "package" and you can't install one part of an optional package and not the rest of it?

Asad

Exactly right. Because STS doesn't have any allowance for limited slips, we have to rely on Stock "allowances". In Stock, the only way to get the VLSD was in the package only available on an SE hatch w/HICAS and ABS, at least in the US. Basically, before embarking on STS modifications, the car has to start out Stock legal, meaning in an option/trim condition that was originally available from the manufacturer.

If I chose to run a '95 or later car, I could put the VLSD in a car that didn't already have it, since it was a stand-alone option. I chose not to run a later car because of the cat in the header that I couldn't remove, the airbag wheel that I couldn't change (I love Momo wheels), and because the car would probably end up being a bit heavier.

[J_Rho]

You should get some 91ka24de cams - more power from what I read

Does anybody have specs or part numbers for the 91 vs. the later cams? I've seen this mentioned many times and places, but not to a level of certainty to get me to start looking for some.

I can only run '91 cams if the part is superceded or considered an OE equivalent part, which isn't likely, as it's an older part than what came in the '92.

If that is the case, as crazy as it sounds, if I wanted to run '91 cams, I'd have to sell my '92 and buy a '91 w/HICAS! Such are the rules.

[champa]

ok i thought that ONLY the hicas came with vlsd???
if the vlsd WAS an options for non-hicas s13s does anyone have some type of documentation on it?

[24zer0]

From my understanding the 91 cams are one of the biggest 240 myths, and they are acutually the same from 91 to I believe late 93 when nissan removed the intake manifold swirl butterflies.

[champa]

91-93 cams are the same.

[D_Money]

91 cams are definitely a myth.

Cool to see someone build a sts 240...and good work so far. I think the biggest issue with 240sx's and STS is almost any significant 'real' upgrade on the car bumps it into sm or modified classes. Since most of us use our cars for daily driving (or own just one car) its too tempting to buy other parts. My car used to be sts legal and locally it was pretty competitive, that was before the onslaught of 88-91 civics though.

Keep us updated with your results as you attend events next year!

[_Def_]

Looks nice! I definitely think you'll have a chance against the Civic hatches. While they have you on weight, you should easily have them on power and especially on TORQUE!

RWD will definitely help at all times, and I definitely think you can get around 2550-80 lbs or so with your car.

From what I've heard, VLSD's wear out over time, so if your car has lots of miles on it, you might want to look into getting the VLSD chunk out of a newer car with less miles(like a J30 or S14) just to make sure it's tight - as being one of the only RWD cars with some form of LSD will definitely help you out there.



BTW - as far as a 240SX competing against E36 M3's in SM on a national level - no way. I've got lots of experience with E36 M3's as well as a setup not all that far from what a SM 240SX would run, and I don't even think they could get close. For one thing, E36 M3's really aren't that big of a car. I'd say the width is within a few inches of a 240SX at most. I really think they're about the same width honestly. Weight - the 240SX will have a slight advantage mostly because the E36 M3 has TONS of sound deadening stuff(lots of racecars get down to 25xx-26xx without much trouble with a full cage in the car, that's with not many composite panels). The M3s gain a lot from things like lightweight panels though, since their sheet metal is definitely thicker than an S13/S14. I'm also of the opinion that in real world use, their suspension design is just plain better. The 240SX's isn't bad, but IMO it's not as good as an M3's in implementation. That alone makes a big difference over what looks to be a close contest on paper.

[Punch]

Looks nice! I definitely think you'll have a chance against the Civic hatches. While they have you on weight, you should easily have them on power and especially on TORQUE!

RWD will definitely help at all times, and I definitely think you can get around 2550-80 lbs or so with your car.

From what I've heard, VLSD's wear out over time, so if your car has lots of miles on it, you might want to look into getting the VLSD chunk out of a newer car with less miles(like a J30 or S14) just to make sure it's tight - as being one of the only RWD cars with some form of LSD will definitely help you out there.



BTW - as far as a 240SX competing against E36 M3's in SM on a national level - no way. I've got lots of experience with E36 M3's as well as a setup not all that far from what a SM 240SX would run, and I don't even think they could get close. For one thing, E36 M3's really aren't that big of a car. I'd say the width is within a few inches of a 240SX at most. I really think they're about the same width honestly. Weight - the 240SX will have a slight advantage mostly because the E36 M3 has TONS of sound deadening stuff(lots of racecars get down to 25xx-26xx without much trouble with a full cage in the car, that's with not many composite panels). The M3s gain a lot from things like lightweight panels though, since their sheet metal is definitely thicker than an S13/S14. I'm also of the opinion that in real world use, their suspension design is just plain better. The 240SX's isn't bad, but IMO it's not as good as an M3's in implementation. That alone makes a big difference over what looks to be a close contest on paper.

Def, you have to get over your M3 days ...you are driving a 240 now.

[RDM_II]

From my understanding the 91 cams are one of the biggest 240 myths, and they are acutually the same from 91 to I believe late 93 when nissan removed the intake manifold swirl butterflies.

^ Bingo. Someone slap the kid who thought otherwise.

[J_Rho]

Looks nice! I definitely think you'll have a chance against the Civic hatches. While they have you on weight, you should easily have them on power and especially on TORQUE!

RWD will definitely help at all times, and I definitely think you can get around 2550-80 lbs or so with your car.

From what I've heard, VLSD's wear out over time, so if your car has lots of miles on it, you might want to look into getting the VLSD chunk out of a newer car with less miles(like a J30 or S14) just to make sure it's tight - as being one of the only RWD cars with some form of LSD will definitely help you out there.



BTW - as far as a 240SX competing against E36 M3's in SM on a national level - no way. I've got lots of experience with E36 M3's as well as a setup not all that far from what a SM 240SX would run, and I don't even think they could get close. For one thing, E36 M3's really aren't that big of a car. I'd say the width is within a few inches of a 240SX at most. I really think they're about the same width honestly. Weight - the 240SX will have a slight advantage mostly because the E36 M3 has TONS of sound deadening stuff(lots of racecars get down to 25xx-26xx without much trouble with a full cage in the car, that's with not many composite panels). The M3s gain a lot from things like lightweight panels though, since their sheet metal is definitely thicker than an S13/S14. I'm also of the opinion that in real world use, their suspension design is just plain better. The 240SX's isn't bad, but IMO it's not as good as an M3's in implementation. That alone makes a big difference over what looks to be a close contest on paper.

Thanks for the props. Shocks got done today, so I'll be driving up to LA tonight to pick them up. Unfortunately the Koni's aren't too bling, making them low on the oohh/ahhh per $ scale..

Based on the assorted crap found in my car, at least the last couple owners were female who didn't drive hard, and in working on the car, the diff still seems okay. Final judgement will have to wait until I run it of course, but I do plan on getting a new viscous unit sometime next year, or as soon as I feel it starting to go.

As for a 240 in SM, the question is largely theoretical until someone really tries it. On the question of size though, consider the 240 has a 97.4" wheelbase, while the M3's is a limo-like 106.3", a huge difference. Based on the measurements Don Nimi has done, a 240 can come in about 72.5" in the rear with 335's on 17x12's, while Vic's M3 is over 75" wide to fit the same tires.

Not sure about the front widths, but a 9 inch wheelbase advantage and 2-3" rear width advantage is pretty good, and then we're looking at having at least a 200lb. weight advantage over the 2650 pound M3, with equal size tires. And while the M3's suspension may be superior with stock componentry, the 240 is blessed with enough rear pickup points that I'm convinced there's flexibily enough to make something work back there, though it may take some $$ in the form of custom spindles and whatnot.

But for now I won't agree or disagree on the car's potential, as no one really will know until they try it, as I'm doing now for STS. I plan to run the car in ST for the next few years, with an eye towards SM in the future. Maybe in the meantime Nissan will build an LS2-beating lightweight V8 that bolts in, making the SM motor equation that much easier...

[_Def_]

Def, you have to get over your M3 days ...you are driving a 240 now.

I wish I were driving it - that bish likes to lounge on jackstands more often than not.


I actually daily drive a '98 M3 Sedan right now, so the M3 days are back. I'm actually debating putting some Tein S-Tech springs on it(already has Koni yellows), but it is my "daily beater" so I'm trying to balance ride comfort vs. handling.

I will say that an M3 is just much more composed than a stiffly sprung 240. Most of it probably comes from the fact that an E36 M3's chassis is about one billion times stiffer than an S13's. Seriously - it's an absolutely huge difference stepping from one to the other. My S13 creaks and groans at the slightest incline, while the M3 feels like a tank in comparison(not just due to the weight). The S13 is faster though, so it has that going for it.

[J_Rho]

I got the welded DC Sports F&R strut bars that will hopefully help a bit with stiffness, though I know it's going to be less than ideal. Not that the Civics are bank vaults anyway...

Hopefully these will help a bit in the "composure" category-

[RyanZ06]

Mmm koni 28 series.. Nice. What spring rates?

[J_Rho]

Mmm koni 28 series.. Nice. What spring rates?

There are a few details of the setup that I'd rather not share, lest somebody else (try to) follow in my footsteps; spring rates, shock valving, alignment, and sway bars are a few of those things. Plus, I fully expect that I'll be playing with lots of different rates in the front and rear as I get things dialed in, so what's going on the car today might not be what's on it next week. I imagine it'll be a few months before I even begin to settle on spring rates, alignment, and shock/bar settings.

[BlaBla]

"The kid" who said that was me and I don't apreciate that kind of comment.

Feeling protected behind that screen hu.....


Whatever...
I was just trying to bring my 2cents in, because shops such as pdm racing refer to the 91 cams : "however our Stage II cams are TRULY 2 stages hotter than even the 1991 cams" (Pdm-racing.com)- and on other forums such as nico's a lot of people swap for those cams and are happy with it. (altought mainly on S14's)

Now if that can bring a few horses to somebody trying to get as much as he can out of his car without breaking the rules - then I will suggest it.

[g81981]

Looks great J-Rho. Best of luck.

[BlaBla]

Mentioning NICO isn't going to win you any points either, now you're just admitting you've been known to feast on raw sewage if you surf that forum.

Internet is a great source of information when you know how to use it, my freind. And that means reading from different websites and not being elitiste and procreating on a single forum masturbating your ego because you know everything that is going to be asked everyday and complain about people not using the search.

If on the other hand you take a look around and open yourself to new opinions you might start learning more.

I know it is scarry to "surf" unknown places but I suppose you are not 5 and a dark room does not scare you anymore.

For example I learned on nico that you can bump your compression up (for KA n/a people) using Ka24E pistons in a KA24DE engine requiring no machinery. I never heard of that on Fresh Alloy or it hasn't been discussed in a long period of time.

Now please stop being useless and post something other than the last row student comment, empty of any thoughts.

Oh and what do you have to say about PDM comment on the 91 cams ?

[Punch]

I wish I were driving it - that bish likes to lounge on jackstands more often than not.


I actually daily drive a '98 M3 Sedan right now, so the M3 days are back. I'm actually debating putting some Tein S-Tech springs on it(already has Koni yellows), but it is my "daily beater" so I'm trying to balance ride comfort vs. handling.

I will say that an M3 is just much more composed than a stiffly sprung 240. Most of it probably comes from the fact that an E36 M3's chassis is about one billion times stiffer than an S13's. Seriously - it's an absolutely huge difference stepping from one to the other. My S13 creaks and groans at the slightest incline, while the M3 feels like a tank in comparison(not just due to the weight). The S13 is faster though, so it has that going for it.

So the M3 days are back...I agree with you that at times I feel like the car is going to fall apart. BTW, what is the weight for the lightest M3 nationally competing in SM?

[Kookz]

For example I learned on nico that you can bump your compression up (for KA n/a people) using Ka24E pistons in a KA24DE engine requiring no machinery. I never heard of that on Fresh Alloy or it hasn't been discussed in a long period of time.

It was talked about, ages ago.

Oh and what do you have to say about PDM comment on the 91 cams ?

How is it any different than anyone else being wrong.

[J_Rho]

Last I heard Vic was in the mid to low 2600's, which should be the lightest of the E36 M3's, though Tunnell's car should be right there.

Was up till about 4am last night putting her together...still haven't driven yet, gotta do some test driving and a wash before heading down to the event at the Q.

I'll post some pics later today...

[J_Rho]

Had an okay debut today. A little over a second off the STS pace of 2005 National Champ Ken Motonishi and 4th place finisher Leslie Cohen. Alignment is totally messed up, wheels are too heavy, tires unshaven, and the ride height up in the clouds. Not to mention the tired old motor and stock ECU...(Is that enough excuses? )

Here's a few more dark pics of the suspension going together, and the strut bar modification. The bar will be receiving some additional reinforcement in the future...

Hopefully I'll be able to find another second in setup...

[rivelta]

great thread. i've been wondering about the potential of the 240sx platform.

question: why the strut bar modification?

[J_Rho]

The ABS cars have a different master cylinder/reservoir configuration, such that the rear DC bar crosses paths with the reservoir. You can see it was notched and re-welded closed. I'll probably do a couple more reinforcement plates and then get it powdercoated...